So first off - I think we headed out without a ride leader - so take this with a grain of salt.

 Here is what happened to the 19 group I left with.

We arrived at the grocery store after climbing up holly hill.  Barely hanging on to the 19 group got me in pretty much last.  There was some talk about some changes to the route... didn't catch what was said - was trying to catch my breath.  We headed out soon after and next thing I know there was a left turn on Midway Rd.  A nice hill climb and then the pack was off - several of us were dropped.  Fortunately we caught the main group before they turned again and got everybody hooked back on.

We made it back to River Rd. then Clark Hill Rd., rather than turning on Clark Hill, we went straight to Farmington where I was dropped again.  We managed to see the group turn left onto 209th, by the time we were through the light they were gone and the 5 of us were riding back.  Two people turned on rosedale (where the main pack went I heard) and three of us went down 209th where we met back up with the main group on Baseline.

 Well, we were dumped, I was fairly lost - just deciding that as long as I was heading north I would get into Hillsboro and back home. 

 My request - if you are changing a route midway through

1) Make sure everyone knows where you are going

2) Don't drop people - we don't have a map at this point... and there isn't a following group to help if there are any problems

 

Sorry for the rant - Now sign me up as a 17 ride leader when you need one

Well - I'll be the first to appologize Bill.  Although I'm not sure I would have been able to change the outcome at all.

 This is a prime case of not having enough organization and forethought at the beginning of the ride.  The 19's had WAY to many people in the group and it should have been separated into at least 2 different groups at the beginning.  I remember hearing as we were rolling out - "who's the ride leader(s)?, who has a map?, you guys might want to break that group up! (but not many people had maps so noone piped up), bla bla bla, etc. etc.  In fact, the group seemed to double in size after we were on the road about 15 minutes - not sure how/when that happened.

 

I was the first back to the store after Holly Hill and promptly took my shoe off to take a rock out and straighten my sock.  A lot of folks there from other groups still.  Then while I was screwing around a bunch more made it down the hill to the store.  At some point, someone yelled to me - Bryan - we're leaving!   So, I stuck my shoe on and left.  The group still looked rather large at this piont but I was usually near the front so it's hard to say.

 We stopped again and waited for everyone on the other side of Clark hill too.  I asked if there were any others coming up - the answer was No - but the group was noticeably smaller than the start of the ride. 

 I honestly don't think that the intention was to drop folks but there seemed to be a natural break in the group to divide it into smaller groups.  I know that's what I was thinking (again - didn't communicate that very well though) - but I can't really speak for anyone else. 

 So, I for one, will make a better effort (when I am at the Sat. rides) to voice up at the beginning to get the groups more manageable in size and more instruction up front.  I think that will go a long way.  I also think that the more people make this effort in unison, the better it will be overall.

 

 

 

Well, I guess the key thing is to have a ride leader.  Perhaps in the future, more of us (I'm refering to me) need to volunteer to perform that duty!

 Hey folks, I was unable to ride this past Saturday but I've certainly heard a ton about the ride since then from emails, phone calls and your well written posts here on the forum.

 

To those who suffered being lost, dropped and otherwise confused I'd like to apologize.  There should not be so much confusion, uncertainty and "discombobulation" either at the start or during a PDXVelo ride.  As an "organized" club there's no excuse for this to happen and we'll make every effort to not have it happen again, you have my word.

 

To help avoid these occurences we do need ride leaders.  It has been an area the club has struggled with for quite some time.  Without ride leaders or enough ride leaders our group rides cannot be successful nor safe.  SO, in the coming weeks and months well be asking folks to sign up as designated ride leaders.  We will have a specific "ride leader program" and I'm hopeful to enlist enough folks that you only have to lead, at most, twice per month.  

 

Again, please accept our apologies for last Saturday and help us be a better, safer club by volunteering to lead rides.

 

Thanks

KRhea

Bill,

 

You guys were so far off the map it was rediculous.  Speaking of maps, did you have one?

When you got to Midway and Hwy 219 which way did you go? LH takes you to Farmington via Hwy 219. RH on Farmington and LH on Rood Bridge and you're back on the ride map.

If you turned RH at Midway and Hwy 219 that takes you to Scholls and you are back on the ride map.

I can't figure out how you got to Clark Hill. River Road starts at Scholls Ferry Rd and goes away from Clark Hill Rd.

 Oh well. You made it home safe that is the  important thing.  

How about as a 17 TEMPO ride leader? We could use you.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

I agree that the discombobulation that got described never should have happened. Nor should any ride group get as large as Bill's apparently did. The latter issue has been a problem off and on since I started riding with Velo back in early 2006. We've tried staggeriing starts, and we've tried the "six-pack" (or "twelve-pack") method, both of which work really well IF: (1) groups actually ride their advertised pace; (2) police themselves; and (3) are willing to stop and wait if they catch up with a group that started ahead of them, to allow that group to once again create a cushion. The 17mph group that I went out with on Saturday did all three things and no one got dropped (I am not counting Bud, who lost his wallet and had to go back for it, and me and Brian who went back for Bud to make sure he did not have to ride back to Longbottom alone . . .). Not only does keeping groups small prevent miscommunication and discombobulation, but it is also safer for the riders and causes less friction with motor vehicles. Now that randonneuring season is drawing to a close, I will be available to lead rides more often (at least until March, when rando season starts up again)

The first group of 19's seemed to have an appropriate number - not more than 12 or so at the start. The numbers seemed to wax and wane as time went on, and it wasn't clear exactly what group we were. Also, there were times when our 19 seemed to be riding more like 20. That didn't bother me too much, but it was a little faster.

It comes down to a recognised ride leader. Which means that we have to volunteer. (Once again speaking for myself)

And one more comment. This is a club run by volunteers. Things won't always go the way we would like. Best to take these difficulties as opportunities to see some new country. If you have doubts, take a map.

When Nance and I are riding tandem, we'll drop off the back of any group we're in to stop for a bathroom, or go up some steep hill. We almost always end up on our own. It's not a problem. Sometimes, we get to pull some stray 21's, or 19's back in - depending on who we catch up with.

I am really impressed with how conscientious people in this club are. You make an effort to ensure there is a spot for all levels of riders and we make the choice as to where we would best fit in. Though Saturday’s ride did seem a bit disconnected and I was slightly dropped for a bit it did not concern me. I felt I just need to kick it up a notch for a while. However, I must say that I was grateful to see the “Iron Woman’s” (Liz?) wheel come around me and pull me and another rider into the pack.

"Recognized Ride Leader"  Yup.  It would help if the ride leader was easily distinguishable.  Yes, this conversation has been had many times before. :-)  Not everyone knows everyone, and folks that show up the first time definitely don't know everyone.  Also, when there is a group with several folks who are ride leaders, but not the ride leader THAT DAY, it can get a little confusing as well.  I counted no fewer than 4 ride leaders in our group on Saturday, but Dean was THE leader.  And note, we all stayed together :-)

Lynne Fitzsimmons:

It would help if the ride leader was easily distinguishable.

Like, maybe if he or she had some special article of clothing to set him or her apart, perhaps? ;-)

"we don't have a map at this point. . . " Why not? John has a stack of these at the start of the ride, and encourages everyone to pick one up. I've seen him holding a stack over his head and calling out "Maps!" If, for whatever reason, you head out without one, then a too large/too fast/no clear ride leader and/or your getting lost are not the sole blame. Yes, the groups have often become too large, and it's a bit of a crap shoot as to whether you get in one that has a responsible ride leader (some do, some don't, and with 80+ riders heading out, group structure {or lack of same} and adherence to advertised pace can vary widely). The 19 group I was in, fortunately, had both reasonable size (12-15) and a ride leader, so we did necessary regroups , communicated to all the one route change we implemented late in the ride, and ended up hanging together. Apparently, other groups had the usual too big/too fast/no one looking after the back of the group problems. We can try and try and try to prevent this from happening and perhaps make some improvements, but after almost 3 years of the Sat ride, and with probably 2/3 of the riders opting for one of the 19 groups, incidents such as those described in this post are going to be a recurring issue. So riders need to make sure they have at least a modicum of independence. The bottom line: Everyone needs to take his/her own map. Period. If you don't take one, and get lost, then it's at least partially on you. Also, if you are strugging to keep up with the group you start with, or get dropped, then wait for the group behind you to catch up and join them. That's why the Sat ride is set up the way it is. Yes, the club has a certain responsibility to provide a safe and fun ride for all who show up. But individual riders also have to, at the very least, take their own maps.

 Very well said Doug.

 

KRhea

I had a map... Not much good when you have followed the group "off map".  I wasn't particularly complaining about myself.  I figured if I kept going north I'd figure things out eventually - but it could be uglier if other people were dropped that way.  I did have a great ride back with Pat.

 We turned left on Midway, right on 219, LH on 210, RH on Scholls Ferry (Ok - I still think of it as River Rd.  When I ride the otherway - I think of it as Skyline... Go figure)...

 Basically, I am willing to lead ride groups that I can comfortably ride with - I still want to ride with the 19s to get my pace up to where I want it for a one day STP shot next summer

 

Bill

I think the lesson to take away from all this disccusion is the more ride leaders we have, the less likey we are to have people who get lost.

In order to have more ride leaders available (a VERY common theme in the club feedback) we need more people to stop asking for them and start becoming them. 

Kudos to the folks in this thread who have stated they are going to step up and do just that.